Currently, many foreign citizens are fighting in the ranks of the Ukrainian Defense Forces against Russia. Some of them, in particular, fighters of the Georgian Legion, have been there for ten years. What is their motivation, what are their future plans, and how do they build relationships with other foreigners - this is what the commander of the Georgian National Legion, MAMUKA MAMULASHVILI, tells about in an exclusive interview with Apostrophe.
- Immediately after its formation in 2014, the fighters of the Georgian National Legion, who had combat experience in their homeland, began carrying out reconnaissance and sabotage missions. Are your functions unchanged at this time?
- I would say they have significantly expanded. Fighters from our legion are not only part of the reconnaissance and sabotage groups of the Main Intelligence Directorate and carry out special operations. They are in units of various brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. In assault battalions, in artillery, and so on.
- So, it would be incorrect to refer to the legion as a separate ethnic unit within the Armed Forces of Ukraine, its fighters are dispersed?
- Yes, initially, besides carrying out purely military tasks, legion fighters also served as instructors – again, due to their combat experience. And this experience varied. But now we have an idea of creating a separate Georgian brigade based on the legion, to bring even more Georgians. In general, at the moment, there are about 70% Georgians in the legion, the rest are representatives of other nationalities. It's hard to single out some of them separately, as there are about 30 nationalities in total.
- Why then did they come to you, why didn't they create their own separate ethnic military formations?
- The creation of ethnic units is a political decision that is not up to us. It will be Vladimir Zelensky who decides how beneficial it will be for Ukraine. But overall, the Georgian National Legion was the only foreign formation at the start of the full-scale war. We have long been known worldwide, and all foreigners who came joined us. As for purely ethnic battalions, until recently, there wasn't even a Crimean Tatar battalion; it was formed only a few months ago.
- In January, Volodymyr Zelensky said in an interview with the British Channel 4 News that Ukraine does not need foreign soldiers to fight Russian occupiers. He said that we can handle it ourselves, just give us modern weapons. What do you think, do we need foreign units?
- Undoubtedly, they are needed. Because it is not only significant assistance from professional soldiers but also tremendous moral support for the people of Ukraine.
- What could be their motivation to come and fight for us? I understand the Georgians, Chechens: Ukraine's victory is their victory too, it's an opportunity to finally break free from the Moscow-Russian yoke. But what drives Europeans, Americans, and others?
- Regarding the final liberation from Moscow's influence, that's understandable. But there are other motivations as well. Ukrainians once helped Georgia a lot, we have long-standing friendly relations. And abandoning friends is the last thing one does. As for Europeans, in my opinion, Europe has finally realized the existential threat posed by Russia. So, if they don't help Ukraine now, the war will eventually come to their countries.
We understand that the occupation of Ukraine is in Russia's vital interests, as without Ukraine, it's a state without a history. But this is just one reason. The second is imperial ambitions, the desire to recreate the Soviet Union and organize the Warsaw Pact, to restore influence over the world. And foreigners see this second reason very well.
- Right now, Putin is very nervous about France potentially sending its limited contingent to Ukraine. Emmanuel Macron assures that they will only be instructors. But could it happen that they actually start fighting?
-I doubt they would directly participate in combat actions.
- But initially, fighters of the Georgian National Legion were also instructors... For instance, if something Russian targets the location of the French unit in Odessa, do you think they'll just remain silent?
- Ah, well in that case, it's entirely possible. I don't rule out such a scenario.
- In the Georgian National Legion, is it common for fighters to feel more comfortable with some than others? After all, there are nearly thirty nationalities represented.
- I wouldn't say so. The guys get to know each other and integrate with one another. There's no hostility here, neither on ethnic nor religious grounds.
- What is your attitude towards the Russian Volunteer Corps, the Freedom of Russia Legion and the Siberian Battalion?
- We have absolutely no relationship with them, nor will there be. They have their own agenda; they're simply bystanders. If they wanted to help Ukraine, they would have done so ten years ago when it all began. We have no desire to engage with them in any way.
- The Georgian National Legion, as a structural unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, receives all necessary weapons and equipment from the state. Are there any other sources for obtaining weapons? Such as trophies, volunteer aid?
- Certainly! Whatever you capture in battle is yours, and if it's intact, it will definitely come in handy. And average Ukrainians provide significant assistance. For example, we need FPV and reconnaissance drones, EW systems, night vision devices. And much more... Donations are very helpful.
- In your view, how has the Russian army changed over two years of full-scale war? After all, its professional backbone was decimated in the spring and summer of 2022, and then various hastily recruited and poorly trained soldiers were deployed.
- They're learning. Those who survived gained experience, and now there are many who know how to fight.
- Can it be said that if previously Russians had only one motivation to fight against Ukraine - money, now personal reasons have been added? Father, brother, friend killed, and so on.
- Not sure. If they're killed, relatives will receive a substantial payout and a car. As before, the motivation is money. As far as I know, they're paid $7,000 upfront upon signing the contract, and then $3,000 per month. That's their main motivation. Plus, there's the opportunity for looting.
- A year and a half ago, Ukraine could have won, reaching the borders of 1991, if the West had provided it with enough modern weapons at that time. Why is it holding back? Are they afraid of escalation, of Russia using nuclear weapons?
I don't believe nuclear weapons play any role. It's just intimidation. The problem lies in the lack of decisive politicians in the U.S. capable of making tough decisions. I've repeatedly said that the era of Reagan, McCain is over. Unfortunately. Perhaps similar politicians will emerge among both Democrats and Republicans, but their time has not yet come.
As for the European Union, there are simply too many greedy, Russia-corrupted politicians there. They sit on Russian money flows.
- What should we expect from the NATO summit?
- In 2008, Ukraine and Georgia were not admitted to NATO (I remind you, this happened due to the position of the then leadership of Germany and France), and because of this, we got a major war in Europe. And every European politician must realize that to some extent, it is their fault. I hope that NATO has drawn some conclusions for themselves about the threat they faced. But I think Ukraine should not expect NATO membership now.
- In your opinion, in case of Russian aggression against Poland and the Baltic states, will Article 5 of NATO be applied?
- I doubt it. The Baltic countries NATO will ignore. NATO and the UN have become bureaucratic and dysfunctional. The UN, in particular, is corrupt and inept, evident since the 90s with Russia's aggression against Georgia. Russia remains a member of both the UN and the Security Council. Ironically, when Russian occupiers blew up the dam of the Kakhovka Reservoir causing an ecological disaster, the UN celebrated Russian Language Day. Quite cynical.
- You're educated as a diplomat, but you became a professional soldier. Is it possible for a good diplomat to emerge from a professional soldier? I'm referring to Valeriy Zaluzhny.
- I think it's entirely possible. A person has seen another side of diplomacy. A completely different side. Those who don't want war are primarily soldiers; they understand too well what it is. Zaluzhny could become a better diplomat than someone trained as one, having seen what a military person could never see.